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Hey Logical | Hey Emotional

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    Posted: 16 Jun 2008 at 10:32pm
Okay, the first time I saw this ad I saw a shorter version, which made a hell of lot less sense. In the version I saw, the doctor wasn't there, so it was just Emotional explaining the situation to Logical, as though they thought women are more intelligent emotionally than logically. This version makes more sense, but it's still kind of annoying. I don't think I really understand why our 'emotional' sides are supposed to be that involved in our birth control decisions. And is that supposed to be all we are? It's a little insulting, you know? Any thoughts, ladies? (Men can comment too, I'm just more curious how other women see this.)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrianO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2008 at 10:47pm
'Hi, Logical, frigid ice queen who can't get laid!'
'Oh, hi, Emotional,stupid, frivolous, promiscuous, hippie chick who screws anything that moves'.
This ad sucks. It reminded me of that idiotic 'Jezebel James' sitcom on Fox a while back...which, if you're lucky, you missed!Thumbs%20Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote violetlightning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2008 at 3:36am
Bingo. Birth control ads are usually vaguely annoying, but I thought this one was more obviously so. Although I thought the ad for the IUC that was discussed on here for alleged male-bashing was pretty good because it showed a mother using birth control, not the stereotypical "single girl in the big city" figure we see most of the time. (Although there is another reason for that - an IUC is best inserted 6 weeks after giving birth, whereas other types of birth control can be used by women regardless of whether or not they've ever given birth. Also, showing a woman with children in a birth control commercial leads to the question of how well the advertised product can possibly work.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrianO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2008 at 6:21pm
Well, that one all but said it was for women who didn't want to have more children, as opposed to not having any, like the 'Duh Sisters' in the video above!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BadWX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2008 at 6:58pm
Originally posted by BrianO BrianO wrote:

'Hi, Logical, frigid ice queen who can't get laid!'
'Oh, hi, Emotional,stupid, frivolous, promiscuous, hippie chick who screws anything that moves'.
 
I curse you evil poster!  You who forces me to spew diet pepsi through my nostrils, a direct result of the intense and powerful humor that you post!
 
For shame, evil poster!  You will force me to giggle and guffaw unnaturally and spontaneously for the rest of the day!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HollyRock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2008 at 9:37pm

Supposedly women are half emotional / half logical.  "Emotional" has to sell "Logical" on Seasonique, and Logical is apprehensive because she doesn't like change.  Or convenience.  Or something that is not defined clearly enough for me to remember.

So: it landed differently for me than it did for you, Violet.  My perception was that Logical gets an equal vote, or maybe even veto power, over Emotional.
 
I don't think this one is as bad as the one with the women hanging out in a nightclub chatting about birth control, and one just happens to be a doc who launches into a mini-speech about side effects while they all smile and nod in agreement (I posted on that elsewhere here).
 
Although, I must say, this ad mostly makes me think of the SNL parody that was done on this product.
Let's try not to be boring, mkay?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote violetlightning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2008 at 9:44pm
Originally posted by BrianO BrianO wrote:

Well, that one all but said it was for women who didn't want to have more children, as opposed to not having any, like the 'Duh Sisters' in the video above!


I disagree - 95% of American women use contraception at some point in their sexual lives, and the majority of those women will go on to be mothers, or already are. So most birth control methods, including both of the ones we're talking about, are fully - and easily - reversible. The only difference between the two is the medication's delivery method - oral vs. Intra-Uterine. (Mirena should not be confused with the infamously unreliable IUD, which did not include any hormonal component.) If Mirena could be used by women who have not given birth, I have no doubt that the woman in the ad would not be chasing children around the front yard, she'd be shown reviewing design boards in a funky mid-town office or sipping a sour apple martini in a chi chi lounge with her gal pals. All I'm saying is it's a little unfair, and with fun people out there like the American Life League and their recent "The Pill Kills" campaign (seriously) and the Pharmacists for Life refusing to fill birth control prescriptions on 'moral grounds', having a stereotypical image of the woman who uses birth control as a self-centered single career girl isn't particularly helpful.

And speaking of shooting things out of your nose from laughter, I read about the Pharmacists for Life thing on Feministing, and then clicked on the link to their website. Now, the purpose of this group is to support pharmacists who refuse to fill legitimate prescriptions for birth control or the morning after pill. In some cases women have reported that these pharmacists have refused to give the paper script back to them so they can have it filled elsewhere. Essentially they're making medical choices for patients even though those decisions should be left up to the woman and the doctor who wrote the prescription, and I might add has more qualifications than a pharmacist. The Daily Show did an awesome segment about it a few years ago, in which they remarked "How dare the government make a moral judgment over the pharmacist -- the pharmacist is supposed to be doing that for the woman!". So anyway, I get to their site, and I see this. (I did a screenshot and uploaded it to my picasa album.)

Hmmmmm.
So I laughed really hard . . . and then felt very very sad. Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2008 at 4:16am
If the pharmacist doesn't want to dispense birth control and that's OK with his employer, it's OK with me.  I don't think a pharmacy (or any store) should be required to sell any particular product they don't want to.  But if the pharmacist refuses to return the prescription to the customer---sorry!!  That's theft!
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hezadancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2008 at 4:40am
I was completely unaware that there were pharmacists out there refusing to fill a woman's birth control prescription, NO ONE has the right to deny me medication based on stupid narrow minded judgements. What's next, refusing to serve fat people at restaurants because the waitress thinks you don't need another burger? My body, my choice.

I was on birth control for 1 year, Yaz to be exact. I was engaged at the time, and was in no way having promiscuous sex, or a whole lot of sex for that matter. I was on the pill because I was told I could be anemic, and I had very long periods. Also every few cycles I would get horrible cramps. I was under my parent's prescription plan still, and it only cost 9 dollars a month, so I figured sure, why not. I would be real pissed if some old pharmacist told me he wouldn't fill my prescription on "moral grounds", he would have gotten an ear full. I ended up not renewing my 1 year prescription because it became too expensive.

With that aside, I don't like those "4 periods a year" pills, I don't get how that is safe. I like how they say there could be breakthrough bleeding that can be like a regular period. No thanks, I'd rather bleed the same amount every month then get surprised by "breakthrough bleeding". I can't imagine those 4 periods a year being very comfortable either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2008 at 4:50am
Originally posted by Hezadancer Hezadancer wrote:

My body, my choice.


 
And their pharmacy, their choice, too.  If you're a meat-eater, would you expect a vegan restaurant to accomodate you?  All you have to do is go elsewhere if you want burgers or birth control to be served up. 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hezadancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2008 at 4:56am
And I would go else where. I'm just saying that the whole "lets impose our beliefs on other people" is so tired.  In the Daily Show link provided by violet there was a law passed in a state that mandated pharmacists to pill prescriptions regardless of beliefs. If I had religious objections to that I would be upset, but in that case law is law. I feel like sometimes religious people take things a little too far. Abortion clinics have been bombed or set ablaze by pro life activists (not all religion backed, but it plays a role). You don't see pro choice people bombing churches.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2008 at 5:03am
Originally posted by Hezadancer Hezadancer wrote:

And I would go else where. I'm just saying that the whole "lets impose our beliefs on other people" is so tired.  
 
Don't you think that a vegan restaurant imposes its own beliefs on other people?  I think it does.  However, that's fine with me, too. 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hezadancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2008 at 5:05am
I'm cool with vegans, If I want something without meat I know where to go. They aren't picketing outside my job at Omaha Steaks, and we aren't throwing raw meat at their windows. And you can't deny that they DO hurt some of the animals before getting turned into food, I mean they have video and everything. It saddens me, and I truly feel for them, but I won't quit eating meat. Some issues are just worse then others I guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FaithSF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2008 at 5:11am
When you're going to a vegan restaurant, you know it.  They advertise themselves as such.  When you're going to a pharmacy, unless it specifically states that they do not sell birth control of any kind, you don't expect to be refused.  And if it's the only pharmacy in a more rural area, their license should be revoked for refusing to fill ANY prescriptions based on their own personal beliefs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hezadancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2008 at 5:18am


It's this sort of thinking that upsets me. No, my birth control is not killing babies, it's helping me control my 10 day long periods and keep me from losing valuable iron.

"The Pill Kills" has this to say: It also changes the lining of the uterus. This makes it difficult, if not impossible, for the five- to seven-day-old baby to attach to the lining, where he/she would receive the nourishment needed to grow. If the baby does not successfully attach to the lining, he/she dies and is expelled from the body during menstruation. This process is known as a chemical abortion. The fact that it can occur as a result of taking birth control pills is why the pill is referred to as an abortifacient.

5-7 day old baby? At that point it is really a cluster of cells, and we can go back and fourth about when a life is a life, but in my opinion, and you are fully entitled to your own, a 5-7 day old fertilized egg is not a baby, and you shouldn't be labeled a murderer. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2008 at 5:48am
Originally posted by FaithSF FaithSF wrote:

When you're going to a vegan restaurant, you know it.  They advertise themselves as such.  When you're going to a pharmacy, unless it specifically states that they do not sell birth control of any kind, you don't expect to be refused.  And if it's the only pharmacy in a more rural area, their license should be revoked for refusing to fill ANY prescriptions based on their own personal beliefs.
 
There's a vegan restaurant in SF called Millennium.  Nothing about that name says "vegetarian".  But if you stumble upon that restaurant and go in, and find that they don't serve what you want, you just go elsewhere.  Likewise, when you go into a drug store, and find out that they don't sell birth control, you're also free to go elsewhere.  It's not as if there isn't another drug store within 1/2 mile in most places.
 
I'd reconsider this just for cases where there is no other drug store in the area.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2008 at 6:58am
Originally posted by HollyRock HollyRock wrote:

Supposedly women are half emotional / half logical.  "Emotional" has to sell "Logical" on Seasonique, and Logical is apprehensive because she doesn't like change.  Or convenience.  Or something that is not defined clearly enough for me to remember. [QUOTE]

 
I wondered why the Logical side was so against it. I'm glad I wasn't alone on this.
 
 [QUOTE=HollyRock]
I don't think this one is as bad as the one with the women hanging out in a nightclub chatting about birth control, and one just happens to be a doc who launches into a mini-speech about side effects while they all smile and nod in agreement (I posted on that elsewhere here).
 
Yeah, for Yaz. She recites the warnings and other stuff ususally spoken off camera , stuff that made no sense in their conversation, as if it were perfectly normal, and her friends give her crap for soundng like a doctor, which she apparently is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote violetlightning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2008 at 8:03am
Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

If the pharmacist doesn't want to dispense birth control and that's OK with his employer, it's OK with me.  I don't think a pharmacy (or any store) should be required to sell any particular product they don't want to.  But if the pharmacist refuses to return the prescription to the customer---sorry!!  That's theft!


I swear I'm not trying to start anything! LOL
But . . .

Normally I would agree with you that people shouldn't be forced to sell products they don't want to, but this is a bit different because it's a completely legitimate medical prescription that millions of women rely on, and the ONLY reason that these pharmacists are refusing to fill it is that they have a personal religious objection, which in some cases is based entirely on the pharmacist's perception of the customer. (Although there are certainly pharmacists who simply will not fill the prescription under any circumstances - including rape.) There was one young woman who went off to college in a pretty rural area, and she went to the only pharmacy in the area to have her birth control prescription filled, and the guy told her something to the effect of "If you have husband, which I don't think you do, come back in with him and then I'll fill your prescription." Shocked But here's the kicker - she wasn't even taking it for the contraception, she was taking it for a medical condition (like debilitating PMS symptoms or ovarian cysts, I can't remember), and she was a virgin! She ended up having to have her mother mail her prescription to her every month from a pharmacy back home. (As you know, my posts are usually better sourced than this, but for the life of me I can't remember where I read this particular account, and I can't find it online. If I can find it, I'll edit this.) So while I agree with you in theory, in the case of this particular item I disagree, because the refusal to carry it creates an undue burden on the women in need of it, and there is absolutely no medical reason for it. The only time I would except a pharmacist refusing any prescription is if they find that what was prescribed would be dangerous to the patient because of other medications or a medical condition. And if a situation like that did arise, I would expect that the pharmacist would contact the person's doctor and attempt to find an alternative, not force them to try and get it somewhere else or hold their prescription hostage or berate them in front of customers.

For more details about the issue, go here and here and read this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote violetlightning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2008 at 8:08am
Originally posted by JimA JimA wrote:

Originally posted by HollyRock HollyRock wrote:

Supposedly women are half emotional / half logical.  "Emotional" has to sell "Logical" on Seasonique, and Logical is apprehensive because she doesn't like change.  Or convenience.  Or something that is not defined clearly enough for me to remember. [QUOTE]

 
I wondered why the Logical side was so against it. I'm glad I wasn't alone on this.
 
 [QUOTE=HollyRock]
I don't think this one is as bad as the one with the women hanging out in a nightclub chatting about birth control, and one just happens to be a doc who launches into a mini-speech about side effects while they all smile and nod in agreement (I posted on that elsewhere here).
 
Yeah, for Yaz. She recites the warnings and other stuff ususally spoken off camera , stuff that made no sense in their conversation, as if it were perfectly normal, and her friends give her crap for soundng like a doctor, which she apparently is.


Dude, I talk like that all the time, can't you tell from my posts? LOL
And I just went to Art School!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote violetlightning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2008 at 8:17am
Originally posted by Hezadancer Hezadancer wrote:


"The Pill Kills" has this to say: It also changes the lining of the uterus. This makes it difficult, if not impossible, for the five- to seven-day-old baby to attach to the lining, where he/she would receive the nourishment needed to grow. If the baby does not successfully attach to the lining, he/she dies and is expelled from the body during menstruation. This process is known as a chemical abortion. The fact that it can occur as a result of taking birth control pills is why the pill is referred to as an abortifacient.

5-7 day old baby? At that point it is really a cluster of cells, and we can go back and fourth about when a life is a life, but in my opinion, and you are fully entitled to your own, a 5-7 day old fertilized egg is not a baby, and you shouldn't be labeled a murderer. 


What they don't mention is that the changes to the lining of the uterus are the tertiary mechanism of the birth control pill. In other words, the primary mechanism is the prevention of ovulation. The secondary mechanism (sort of a back up) is a change in the fallopian tubes (iirc) making it harder for sperm to connect with the egg. Only after those two fail does the 'change in unterine lining' have an effect. And since plenty of women have gotten pregnant while taking the pill (by missing a day or two), I'm not convinced that the third mechanism is all that effective. The other thing they don't mention is that no one knows how many fertilized eggs fail to implant on their own. It's essentially unknowable, but they act as though it only occurs when slutty promiscuous chicks selfishly take the pill.

Dammit, I started something. Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wild Starchild Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2008 at 12:13am
Originally posted by Hezadancer Hezadancer wrote:

I was completely unaware that there were pharmacists out there refusing to fill a woman's birth control prescription, NO ONE has the right to deny me medication based on stupid narrow minded judgements. What's next, refusing to serve fat people at restaurants because the waitress thinks you don't need another burger? My body, my choice.

 
YEP!!! Have actually seen MYSELF, a segment or two on TV about folks who are actually trying to get just that to happen. I don't remember if they were trying to get actual "LAWS" passed or not but there are certain groups out there trying to do this. Maybe we should all get together and form a group that get's "KILLING STUPID PEOPLE" legalized.
AW DAMN!!!! Wild Shot the friggin TV again!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote korydvandyke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2008 at 1:06am
The ad may be annoying, but the girl is quite easy on the eyes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hezadancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2008 at 2:03am
Originally posted by Wild Starchild Wild Starchild wrote:

Originally posted by Hezadancer Hezadancer wrote:

I was completely unaware that there were pharmacists out there refusing to fill a woman's birth control prescription, NO ONE has the right to deny me medication based on stupid narrow minded judgements. What's next, refusing to serve fat people at restaurants because the waitress thinks you don't need another burger? My body, my choice.

 
YEP!!! Have actually seen MYSELF, a segment or two on TV about folks who are actually trying to get just that to happen. I don't remember if they were trying to get actual "LAWS" passed or not but there are certain groups out there trying to do this. Maybe we should all get together and form a group that get's "KILLING STUPID PEOPLE" legalized.


Sigh, I'm speechless, I was just trying to be silly but apparently that isn't too far fetched.

Today there was a woman outside of Target near her car, her small child just hanging out of her car window, while she, PREGNANT mommy leaned up against it taking a smoke and talking on her cell. Smoking carries actual risks to a baby, but I didn't go up to her and yell "Your hurting your baby!" and smack the cig from her hand. So here's a new one "What's next, Truth ads (a la the one about smoking = low birth weight) telling you to stamp out pregnant woman's cigarettes because it hurts the baby?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mutebuttoner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2008 at 8:18am
Originally posted by Hezadancer Hezadancer wrote:

... I don't like those "4 periods a year" pills, I don't get how that is safe...

In the long version of this commercial, a doctor says, "there's actually no medical reason to have a monthly period," and Miss Emotional gives a look to Miss Logical that says, "SEE? I TOLD YOU."

NO MEDICAL REASON?!?!?!? Where do they come off even spewing that crazy bullsh*t? And are we supposed to believe that one doctor's opinion holds more weight than millions of years of biology?

These commercials do a good job perpetuating stereotypes and popularizing ignorance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote violetlightning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2008 at 8:05pm
Originally posted by mutebuttoner mutebuttoner wrote:

Originally posted by Hezadancer Hezadancer wrote:

... I don't like those "4 periods a year" pills, I don't get how that is safe...

In the long version of this commercial, a doctor says, "there's actually no medical reason to have a monthly period," and Miss Emotional gives a look to Miss Logical that says, "SEE? I TOLD YOU."

NO MEDICAL REASON?!?!?!? Where do they come off even spewing that crazy bullsh*t? And are we supposed to believe that one doctor's opinion holds more weight than millions of years of biology?

These commercials do a good job perpetuating stereotypes and popularizing ignorance.


Ummmm, that's actually true. And it's certainly not just "one doctor"'s "opinion", nor is it "ignorant". In fact, people have known about this for years; the only advance that has been made recently is the FDA approval of pills that are marketed for their ability to suppress menstruation. Women have been skipping the inactive/placebo pills in their birth control packs and starting the next month's active pills a week early for a long time. Here's an explanation:

Medically, there is no reason to have a monthly period when taking hormonal contraception—which prevents ovulation and build up of the uterine lining. The placebo/spacer week in pill packs were developed because pharmaceutical companies thought women would feel unsettled or unnatural not having their period. Women taking hormonal contraception experience withdrawal bleeding during the week of placebo pills because of the gap in hormones; taking the pills continuously eliminates the withdrawal bleeding.

Other explanations can be found here and here. As to those "millions of years of biology", as late as 150 years ago, women on average had about 150 periods in their lifetime; today it's 3x that many. (150 years ago women had many more pregnancies and spent more time breast-feeding, therefore having far fewer periods than modern women.) My complaint with this commercial was never the medical accuracy. I understand that many people, like Hezadancer, don't know the whole theory behind it and are understandably skeptical - but before you declare something "ignorant", you might want to look into it.
Mayor Quimby supports revolving-door prisons. Mayor Quimby even released Sideshow Bob, a man twice convicted of attempted murder. Can you trust a man like Mayor Quimby? Vote Sideshow Bob for Mayor.
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